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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
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Subject: TML Bundle #268: Msgs 3228-3243
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Dec  4 21:00:40 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #268: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3229  03-Dec-91 Ed Sharpe         Medical Slow Drug << Hello, I am new to the T
3230  03-Dec-91 bonnevil@stolaf.e AECO, also Zho Invasion << On AECO Starport/D
3231  03-Dec-91 gsw@whservd.att.C Re: New Traveller << Scott Kellogg writes: > 
3232  04-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Seeker products << Does anybody know anything
3233  04-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse What will DGP do? << It seems that GDW is bou
3234  04-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha GENIE Replies << <As long as I'm on the subje
3235  04-Dec-91 richard@agora.rai Metlay's Novel << Mike, you (with some seriou
3236  04-Dec-91 richard@agora.rai GENIE: NeoTraveller << Too much indecision. W
3237  04-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN AECO << African ECOsystem. metlay 
3238  04-Dec-91 bonnevil@stolaf.e Lessons Not Learned? (Revision) << One part o
3239  04-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Revisions, Part 17 << The following messages 
3240  04-Dec-91 givler@bermuda.ra The Twilight 2K system. << In all this talk o
3241  04-Dec-91 "J.A.F.O."        The Wish List << 1) Ok so the New traveller w
3242  04-Dec-91 "J.A.F.O."        Star-lust! Sex and aliens in MT << After the 
3243  03-Dec-91 "J.A.F.O."        History and TAS << Is there any way for those
3244  04-Dec-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au GEnie: MegaTrav design flaws << Hi folks, Ok,

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3229
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 91 13:25:09 PST
From: Ed Sharpe <esharpe@phad.hsc.usc.edu>
Subject: Medical Slow Drug

Hello, I am new to the TML and this is my first posting, so please be gentle with
me.  :-)

First some back ground on me.  I consider myself a wargammer who does RPG's. 
Keep this in mind when you flame me.  My latest traveller campain had the players
running a TCL 15 marine platoon.  I used a lot of Striker in the campain.  Anyway
for my problem.  One of the players was something of a munckin and abused
medical slow drug.  To resole that problem I have written the following set of tasks
for use of medical slow drug.  I would like your CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of them. 
Note: I used 7+ instead of routine. (or what ever the word is for a roll of 7+). 
Note I can post my vehicle & robot designs if people are interest, but be warned
that they are Striker designs and not Mega-Traveller designs.  Thank you.


                      The Use of Medical Slow Drug in Traveller

To diagnose the Injury
7+    Medial, Education,        30 Seconds,         Uncertain, Non-Repeatable

To Prepare and Administer Medical Slow Drug
7+    Medical, Education,       10 Seconds,         Uncertain, Non-Repeatable

To Avoid a Negative Medical Slow Drug Reaction
7+    Medical, Endurance,       3 Hours,            Uncertain, Fateful, Hazardous,
      (Doctor, Patient)                             Non-Repeatable

HTK   ==     STR+DEX+END        Recovery     ==     END*3

Failure Table (1, 2, or 3 D6) (Uncertain) 
1     +1/2D6 hours recovery
2     +1D6 hours recovery
3     +2D6 hours recovery
4     +3D6 hours recovery
5     *1D6 hours recovery
6     *2D6 hours recovery
7     *3D6 hours recovery
8     *1D6 hours recovery       1/2 HTK Recovered
9     *2D6 hours recovery       1/2 HTK Recovered
10    *3D6 hours recovery       1/2 HTK Recovered
11    *1D6 hours recovery       No HTK Recovered
12    *2D6 hours recovery       No HTK Recovered
13    *3D6 hours recovery       No HTK Recovered    
14    *3D6 hours in comma, further medical treatment needed, no HTK recovered.
15    +3D6 days in comma,  further medical treatment needed, no HTK recovered.
16    +3D6 weeks in comma, further medical treatment needed, no HTK recovered.
17    +1D6 Wounds         *3D6 Hours Recovery       No HTK recovered.
18    +3D6 Wounds         *3D6 Hours Recovery       No HTK recovered.

Notes:
      Alien Species raise the difficulty one to two levels (Referee determined).
      Hasty attempts raise the difficulty level by one & the lower the time factor.
      Cautious attempts lower the difficulty level by one and raise the time factor.
      A Hasty Slow Drug Reaction can not be made.  
      A Cautious Slow Drug Reaction can be made.  The time factor is doubled.
      The time of the Slow Drug Reaction is uncertain.
      Without a Diagnosis and Preparation skill roll, a Slow Drug Reaction roll
      becomes a 11+ roll, and failure automatically rolled on 3D6.
      For each No Truth result on skill rolls add 1D6 to the failure table.  For each
      Some Truth add 1/2D6 to the failure roll.  ie: a No Truth on the Diagnose,
      Preparation, and Reaction roll requires a 3d6 roll on the failure table.


Ed Sharpe
esharpe@phad.hsc.usc.edu^Z

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3230
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 91 16:50:41 CST
From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu
Subject: AECO, also Zho Invasion


On AECO Starport/Deepsite:

When I saw this in Invasion: Earth, I always figured that it meant
something like "Africa-Europe Cooperative Organization", since it is
the only starport in the area, and it is in North Africa on the Med.
I really don't know for sure, though.

On Zhodani invasion of a weakened Imperium:

I really doubt that the Zho's _want_ the Imperium.  Their focus is really
much more to coreward, and the territory and resources they have committed
to that focus is simply staggering.  As it is they have their hands quite
full with the Expeditions.  A total collapse of the Domain of Deneb would
lead to an invasion -- but only one far enough to secure their own borders.
The Frontier Wars have been claimed to be a Zho attempt to get the Imperium
to leave them alone, and not try to move in on them.  Now, they might get
tangled up in a war they don't want, but I don't think they plan on driving
into Deneb if they can help it.
That's not to say that the Aslan, Vargr, and Solomani, as well as anyone
else in the area, won't give Imperial conquest a shot....

- --Steve

"Mega- what?  What does the metric system have to do with a SF-RPG?"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3231
From: gsw@whservd.att.COM
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 91 18:59 EST
Subject: Re: New Traveller

Scott Kellogg writes:

> Problem:  How do we get them to listen to us?  The only way I can think of
> is a psy-ops campaign.  If we just yell and flame at them, they will NOT
> listen.  So, I think we have to calm down our tone a bit.  If we come across
> as REASONABLE people I think we have a shot at it.  I mean if we have
> complaints about the revisions, I think we had better be able to come up
> with alternative ideas rather than saying, 'I don't like this'

You're right.  Unfortunately, many of us also have time constraints.
I, for instance, have a great deal of catching up to do at work
(having just returned from vacation).

If we really want to provide REASONABLE and CONSISTENT alternatives,
then someone will have to take some time to compile people's ideas.

	[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
	[[							  ]]
	[[	TMLer Joe Heck has already offered to do this	  ]]
	[[	as I announced a few days ago.  Please make sure  ]]
	[[	to send your comments to the TML and/or to Joe	  ]]
	[[	directly at cspecjh@umcvmb.missouri.edu. He	  ]]
	[[	Will summarize the responses and post the digest  ]]
	[[	to the TML, where it can be passed on to GEnie.	  ]]
	[[							  ]]
	[[					-- James	  ]]
	[[							  ]]
	[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

I think that many of us have similar, or at least compatible, ideas
about what to do with Traveller.  If someone would be willing to
look at my ideas and incorporate them into a "proposal" of sorts,
I'd be willing to put my name on it.  Then, we could present it to
GDW and say "The following x people talked about it and would like
collectively to see these things: ..."

So, would you like to do such a thing?

To get you started, I'll name a few of my preferences:

o PROOF-READ it and have a few dozen non-gamers try to learn the rules
  by reading it!!!!!!

o The name "Traveller", or "Traveller, 3rd edition".  No fancy prefixes
  or suffixes or whatever.

o A good task system.  The MegaTraveller system is good (although not
  quite so perfect as some have been claiming recently).  I haven't
  seen the T2k2 rules, so can't comment on them.

o The Traveller background.  Don't totally ditch everything that is
  out there now.  Moving the timeline forwards is OK by me, though.

o A STABLE background.  We don't need galactic revolutions taking
  place.  It's nice to be able to create campaigns in the official
  universe without having to take such things into account.  It's
  OK to have a section of the galaxy in turmoil, but not all of it.
  A Long Night is also OK, since it is at least stable.  It could
  even be preferable, since it allows GMs freedom when designing
  their campaigns.

o Realistic and CONSISTENT science.  This virus thing seems to be
  REALLY stretching it, even if it's got abilities such as Iasic of
  the PBEM.  I've got to see it to believe it.  Also, stick to
  conservation of energy.  Even with the OLD Traveller rules, any
  player with a small spaceship could single-handedly decimate a
  world.  Jump drives and grav drives are OK as long as you explain
  them and don't get a free ride w.r.t. energy consumption.  Grav
  drives must use as much energy as the difference in gravitational
  potential energy.  Jump drives cannot jump to a higher point of
  potential energy without a commensurate cost.  By the way, this
  is a very good reason why jumps can never be into open space,
  but only into a star system, and wouldn't crash you into a star
  or planet.

o Rules for construction of vehicles/spaceships/robots/guns/whatever.
  They don't need to be in one place, but this is one aspect of
  Traveller which many people seem to like.  They also MUST be easy
  enough to do without a computer and in a reasonable amount of time.
  This is rather important -- there are many GMs and players who love
  to spend time designing things.  It's a form of solo play.

o Keep detailed character generation.  It really adds to the flavor
  of the game.  It's also good to have some randomness, although
  this may be optional.  From my experience, random generation of
  characters and character backgrounds leads to better role-playing
  and less munchkinism, even with experienced gamers.

o Don't make any one character type or character generation method
  vastly superior to any others (if there are different methods).
  The original Traveller fell into that trap starting with Book 4.

o Don't make Traveller or MegaTraveller stuff obsolete.  Provide for
  conversions to the new system.  Where things are changed in the
  new system, don't make them so different that you can't simply
  "fake it" with old characters/designs/etc.

o Does anyone else out there like the 6-sided dice?  I always
  identified Traveller with 6-siders and the 2d6 bell curves used
  for everything.  I'm really sorry to see this go.  I mean it.
  The whole feel is different.  Somehow, the fact that you don't
  need any special dice or equipment gave Traveller a FEEL unlike
  any other RPG.  It sounds strange, but I think that this really
  makes a difference.

Could someone (please) offer to compile a list of these and other
similar ideas and send them to GDW?  Barring that, I hope someone
will at least forward this to GEnie.  (I really wish they'd hook
into the Internet.  They should realize that they would actually
be gaining customers, not giving away their services.  Once people
on their net started getting into more and more mailing lists and
such, GE would have more business than they could handle.  And
people would still use GEnie.  The business they gain would vastly
outweigh the few they lose who have both free access and pay for
GEnie.  I doubt they'd even lose those people.  OK, enough ranting
for now 8-).

Jerry Williams (gsw@gummo.att.com)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3232
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Seeker products
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 9:36:24 MET

Does anybody know anything about two products from Seeker that
I've seen advertised in 'Megatraveller Journal' #2: _Lords of
Thunder_ and _Consumer's Guide_? Are they out? Are they any
good?

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3233
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: What will DGP do?
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 10:34:20 MET

It seems that GDW is bound and determined to abandon the current
MegaTraveller universe. Wether it be by jumping 80 years ahead as
they plan or by moving somewhere else or even going back to The Long
Night dosen't really matter to me. The bottom line is that I won't be
able to use the new material in my campaign, which is set in the
Spinward Marches in the year 1113. (Why, I haven't even decided yet
if I'm going to use the Rebellion at all!) A starspanning game
universe needs an inordinate amount of background data and IMO the
Traveller Universe had just about reached an adequate amount  -
at least in the Deneb Domain and a few other places. But apparently
GDW consider the large amount of background data _detrimental_ to
new players' enjoyment of the game. If that's the way their minds
work then I'm not going to waste my time trying to persuade them to
support my campaign, and I'm not going to buy any of the new
background material (Now, if they come up with some good rules
and package them seperately, then I'll propably buy the rules.
But that's another matter.

What I'm really anxious to know is: Will DGP drop Megatraveller too?
I gather thaty they are not involved in Traveller III, but will they
retain their licence to do Megatraveller stuff? And do they want to?
Or will they switch to that new game of theirs, AI?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now. Facts
are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3234
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: GENIE Replies
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 15:26:42 MET

 <As long as I'm on the subject of these messages - I would be really
 curious to find out a few things about the people who DON'T want
 the T2K 2nd ed. rules type system: A) Have they ever used it, read it,
 or know anything FIRST HAND about it. B) Do they use the MT task system
 (most of the people have said yea or nay on that subject but I am 
 curious about the others).>

  I'm not sure if you regard me as a member of the group that don't want the
T2k rules in Traveller, because there are parts of it that I'd love to see 
there and slightly more parts that I'd loathe to see there, but here it is:

  A: T2k: Own, read, used and on occation even played:)
  B: MT Tasks: Use and like.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3235
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Metlay's Novel
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 6:48:25 PST

Mike, you (with some serious help from Nick, Mark, and Bertil)
DID write a Traveller novel...  :=)

On to NeoTraveller...
Has anyone asked about how, why characters carry personal firearms
everywhere?  And why and how do local governments put up with it?
It seems that with humans, NOTHING scares the local "officials" more
than having an outsider be a direct threat to their perceived power
base.  The logical outcome in the balkanization "Star Viking"
presumes is intensely high law levels and petty warlords.

This does not bode well for science.
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3236
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: GENIE: NeoTraveller
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 6:55:17 PST

Too much indecision.

Working on the assumption that at least one TMLer will eventually
be tapped to play test, I'd like to sweeten the pot.

I volunteer I can't believe I'm doing this) to technically review,
proofread, and even do limited rewrite on any portion, or possibly
even all of the new rules.  I have ten years technical writing
experience and know what I'm doing, so I won't screw you up.  If
any of you at GDW (or DGP - I'll make the same offer to Joe for AI)
is interested, drop me a line or call me and we'll discuss terms.
For a project so dear to my heart, you can count on them being
unbelievably reasonable.

Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com 
517 SE 8th Ave
Hillsboro, OR  97123        (503) 640-9209

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3237
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 10:07:14 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: AECO

African ECOsystem.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3238
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 09:42:19 CST
From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu (Steven Bonneville)
Subject: Lessons Not Learned? (Revision)


One part of my concern about this "virus destroying the centralized CPU
factories of the Imperium" is two-fold.  First, if the Imperium is reliant
enough on computers that their loss would cause a crash, one would think 
that there would be *MANY* production sites -- surely, not all of them
would be seeded.  One would think that elementary concerns about security
and safety of a proprietary production line would lead to the production
CPU being isolated from outside interference and the planetary network,
just to avoid corporate espionage and tradewar sabotage.

Second, the Imperium did have a lesson about the dangers of concentrating
industrial facilities at the end of the Solomani Rim War.  According to
an old Trav.Digest I saw, part of the reason the Imperium was unable to
follow up after Earth was the destruction, by deep-penetration commandos,
of one of their rear-area Industrial worlds.  You see, it had a highly
centralized life-support system for the populace, since it was located on
a hostile world, and the commandos just went in and blew it away. This
might not be common knowlege, but in the 110 years from the war to the
Rebellion, you'd think that INI, IISS/IB, or IRIS would attempt to suggest
some doctrinal changes to the Emperor, and implement them.

I won't be using this virus in any campaign I might run, because it is 
unnecessary and changes the character of Lucan from understandably 
incompetent, if perhaps a bit crazed, to STUPID.  After all, Lucan is the
only "Emperor" who is likely to try this, what with his "Super Weapons"
(gag) and all.  Can anyone see Norris, Brzk, or Margaret trying this?  Or
the mercantilist, conservative Vilani?  (What, destroy our own megacorps!?!)
I don't think Dulinor would, simply because he believes so strongly in
improving the lot of those in his Domain.  After all, that's how he got
his title.  Would the "Strephon" supporters, or the Brothers of Varian?
Perhaps, since we know so little about them...a darn shame too.  I doubt
it, though.  Or Daibei, a former Sector government?  No.

After all, without a latter-day Arbellatra, the empire will fall all by
itself.  It's already halfway there.

- --Steve

"Mega- what?  What does the metric system have to do with a SF-RPG?"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3239
Date:     Wed, 4 Dec 91 10:38:25 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Revisions, Part 17

The following messages have been posted on GEnie since Sunday evening.  As
you can see, discussion is starting to slow down.  I took the liberty of
deleting a couple of messages that strictly pertain to GEnie's ability
to handle multiple kbyte posts from us.  (-:  (Regardless of whether or not
they are inhibited over there, they don't talk very much, compared to us.
(-: (-: )

Rob Dean

- --------------------------------------------------------


 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 84        Sun Dec 01, 1991
M.MIKESH                     at 20:12 EST
 
 Jay -
      <If you can't edit out some of the more offensive messages to
 post elsewhere I would appreciate the entire batch going elsewhere.>
      It almost seems as though Topic 26 has turned into what you
 intended Topic 29 to be.  This seems workable, rather than dumping
 to Topic 3.  But if you have an objection, maybe Rob Dean could
 establish another topic specifically as a GEnie/TML interface.

      A) Have they ever used [T2K], read it, or know anything FIRST
 HAND about it.
      Yes, as a player, not a ref.  Too combat oriented for my tastes.

      B) Do they use the MT task system.
      Definitely.  Its an excellent system, but I won't have a tantrum
 if we loose it.
                                                                 MIKE
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 85        Sun Dec 01, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 20:19 EST
 
As the person who asked Carl to post the TML messages, I feel responsible. 
Perhaps the solution is to start a separate TML topic, or to post the 
messages in the library. In any case, I am with Carl in that I don't want to
read only good remarks...I specifically asked him to give me all comments
about Traveller. I appreciate what Carl and Rob have done for GDW so far, as
all feedback is useful, even highly critical feedback. 
     I take issue with some people's remarks, but I find I agree with some
others...
           Loren
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 86        Sun Dec 01, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 21:45 EST
 
Yeah, a TML topic would be just the thing. That way, those who don't want to
have to wade through buckets of messages can just ignore that particluar
topic.

- - Jay
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 87        Sun Dec 01, 1991
M.MIKESH                     at 23:46 EST
 
 Jay -
      A TML topic will help a lot of folks -- those that casually monitor
 this category.  It'll still have a lot of readers, though, including
 myself.
                                                                      MIKE
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 88        Mon Dec 02, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:57 EST
 
I'll be reading it myself. I'm sorry if I've been sounding terribly pickey
about this because I don't want to give the wrong impression. I think that the
TML stuff SHOULD DEFINITELY be posted in this category. Since those folks
can't participate in these conversations directly, this is the next best
thing. It also increases the amount of input GDW gets on the new revision
(which is a BIG help I'm sure). The more voices heard, the more of an overall
look they can get at people's perspectives on the subject. My ONLY complaint
is about where the messages are ending up. Most of the stuff seems like it
fits in fine but some of the really vocal folks who have NOTHING positive to
contribute make me cringe because that's not why I started this topic. Again,
they should all be heard, but I didn't think that this was the place to do it.
Since I seem to be the only one who thinks so though, go ahead and keep
putting them here.

- - Jay
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 90        Mon Dec 02, 1991
M.TURNAGE1                   at 21:09 EST
 
78 Jay: I seem to be one of the few, but I've been there all along through T2k
1st _and_ 2nd, and seem to be one of the very rare few that's run it more than
once.  I've also been running MT since it came out.

  I was one of the first to come out against the T2k system...I'm less wary
now, but still casting a VERY critical eye.  My two main problems have been A)
Its lack of a task system and B) Compatibility of characters -- The UPP is a
nice and simple concept, plus I like the idea of being able to do a
character's stats in less than a minute.

  A) is not so much of a problem now, though I'm still playing around with the
task system Les posted in a DC game I've been running -- I figure if it works
for the original system, it should work when modified for Traveller.  BTW,
I've done some number crunching...I actually like its probabilities more than
the MT task system's in a lot of ways.  Be warned: It's a linear system of
probabilities instead of on a bell curve: Routine tasks are harder, while
Formidibles and Impossibles are easier.  I'll upload a detailed analysis soon.

  B) I'm not so sure...if we must see a change in basic statistics, I'd like
to see a simple linear change ie. just add +3 to everything.  I'm not too sure
if I want to see anything added, though I would like to see a Charisma stat;
Social Standing should be kept, but I'd like to see it determined by something
else.

Actually, that should probably be put on the wish list: A more realistic
determination of social standing.  With the end of most large interstellar
governments, this will become much more subjective.

RE the Virus: I may have missed something, but my impression was that the
"virus" quickened the collapse, but wasn't the cause.  I also got the
impression that this didn't get rid of all the computers,only certain ones at
the high TL's, say 14-15.  This hurts the real high-tech planets, but doesn't
directly effect the majority of mid-range TL planets (Tl 9-12).  It also wipes
a lot of the remaining high tech fleets.

   Most probably it _doesn't_ effect non-Imperial computers, and once its
existence is known precautions can be taken.  However, the major damage is
already done.  And every so often, a backwater world gets ahold of a piece of
junk or salvaged computer from one of the higher TL worlds...

Mark


 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3240
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 11:13:21 EDT
From: givler@bermuda.rain.COM (Greg Givler)
Subject: The Twilight 2K system.

In all this talk of how to improve MegaTraveller, and Traveller, The
New Edition, many of you have stated that you have not seen the
Twilight 2K system. Here is how it works in a nutshell. BTW, I have
only read thru most of the rules, not all of them and it was only one
reading at that.

There are three levels of Difficulty. 

Easy, Normal, and Difficult.

The roll for Easy is your skill level X2 or less. So if you have
Wheeled Vehicle 3 an Easy task would be to roll a 6 or less, on a D10
I believe, I could be wrong about the dice involved.

For a Normal Task the roll is your skill level or less. So in the
above example you would have to roll a 3 or less.

For a Difficult Task, the roll is half your skill level, rounded down. In the above
example you would have to roll a 1 or less.

I think this Elegant in and simple. It is easy for the both the GM
and the players to learn. Someone mentioned that you have no way of
succeeding in something that you don't have a skill in. I disagree
with that, this is a role playing game, and the first thing that I
learned about role playing games is that the GM makes the rules.

So I don't have the skill to fly that airplane, if I am foolish, or
desparate enough, to try then the GM will have to assign a task such
as possibly my computer skill because I played lots of flight
simulators. Of course with my Computer skill at say five, I only have
a 20% chance of getting that plane off the ground, and probably less
of a chance to land the sucker. I personally think that my own
chances of taking off and landing a plane, would be less than 20% but
then this is a game, not real life, and our characters are the
exceptional people in this world not the normal ones. If we were
playing normal people then this wouldn't be role playing it would be
life. :-)

Anyway that is the basic Task system. I like it, I never really liked
MT's never could remember which number was for which difficulty
level. Also Combat drove me insane, and who runs all there Traveller
adventures with out combat.

The combat system is just as easy, auto-fire is handled separately.

To hit a Close range it is twice your skill in the weapon that you
are using. 

To hit a medium range it is your skill level.

To hit a long range it is half your skill rounded down.

All weapons do the same damage no matter what the range. The theory
being that with modern weapons you don't lose much in power in these
short ranges. We're talking for the most part less than 1000 meters.

I forget how to handle body armor, but it is easy, and I understood
it on the first reading. I just can't remember and I don't have the
book with me.

Auto-Fire is better than the first edition of 2K, but I still think
needs a little work. The way I think it works is you roll the number
of dice and anything that misses is rerolled on adjacent targets.
Like this:

Your auto-fire rate is 5 that means that you roll 5 d6, every 6 you
roll is a hit on the primary target, any dice that are not 6's are
rerolled and any 6 in that group is a hit on an adjacent target. What
limits auto-fire is the recoil rate of the machine gun being fired.
If you are stronger then it is easier to control the recoil of the
gun. I don't know if this is the way it is in real life, I have only
shot a .22 at tin cans, and a shotgun, also at a tin can. I am sure
that if it is not like real life, someone will tell me. :-)

Greg



- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "By the way, don't eat the figs." - Livia to Tiberius after the death of
                        Augustus - I, Claudius PBS
===============================================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3241
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 12:28 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSU646@vaxa.bangor.ac.uk>
Subject: The Wish List

1) Ok so the New traveller will have d20 based tasks....This I CAN live with,
 it would help if you kept the old MT naming systems for difficlty though as has
been pointed out 'average' can be misleading.

2) More modules! and I say again more Modules! The two (count them! 2) that were
produced for MT were good, if you can keep the quality and up the numbers then
so much the better.

3) I have said this before and I'll repeat it again Why not let us poor schmucks
know what is going on in the universe ahead of time? By which I mean a GM can
plan out a campaign ahead of time without having it upset by TAS that comes out
during the campaign, this way TAS can be figured in as part of the ongoing 
flavour eg. To take a rebellion example if my party were on Antares they could
find out about the nova prediction 1st hand from a scientist BUT it would help
if the GM knew there was going to BE a prediction so he could set it up.
y'know "foreshadowing"...... the mark of quality literature?
 The 2300 example being the Kafer war books being out so's a GM can run the 
war at his own pace without running out of info halfway.

4) A more convincing long night inducer than the DV.
   but I supose needs must when profit drives....... Sorry I am being unfair, it
is probably a well thought out idea BUT from the "trust us we know best" type
comments from the Mob in charge it is hard to make a fair assessment (and THEY
can't tell so's not to spoil the surprise... right lads?).

5) If the number 13.5 crops up quite as often in neo trav' as MT there may be
a good few of the local Roleplaying fraternity coming over to the states with
large quantities of bacon fat! PLEASE PLEASE make sure the ship design system
is easier to use! Maybe (as has been put forward) a simple fast'n'dirty way and
a long'n'precise way to achieve similar results, that way you can knock up a 
quick trader type in half an hour (with no computer aid!) and for that extra 
special adventure hook ship that little bit of extra effort......

6)  The deadlyish nature of MT combat is Ok but from my experience of 2300
that system is it is a trifle more realistic, so maybe that system would be
an asset & one one my moans in MT is the lack of a decent hit location and 
damage system (mind you with a PGMP who cares!)

7) More aliens! The galaxy is BIG and the imperium can't be the only large 
state maybe a few new neighbours, the rimward borders for example now THAT
would quiet the Solomani down a bit wouldn't it!??! 
And if there are new aliens make them as good as the Hivers or K'kree,
like actually ALIEN (unlike the pseudo samurai moggies from kuzu).
How about the Primordials from Knightfall? more evidence of them..... new
sites to explore and puzzle at..... (I am toying with using my Gurps Uplift
book for a similar purpose)

long winded but hopefully relevent
			JAFO
ps I hate comunication lags! I complain about acrimony and by the time my 
message is posted people start violently being nice to each other! Xmas?
bah humbug!


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3242
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 13:09 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSU646@vaxa.bangor.ac.uk>
Subject: Star-lust! Sex and aliens in MT

After the response to my message concerning a mixed species love affair i have
been mulling over a few things.....

1) The sexual mores of various races for a start.
It is fair to exclude K'Kree,Hivers and most other non humanoids from this but
has anyone wondered what the base racial attitudes to sex etc. IS for various
races?
  Eg. The leonine Aslan who if they are ecologically like lions will have a part
of the year when females are insatiable, an interseting possiblity in so rigid
a soceity, the social saftety valve could be some ritual.
 Or Vilani whose soceity might suggest some high degree of prudery (don't ask me
why but thats my impression) with again some outlet in soceity.
 The total honesty of Zhodani soceity lends itself to all sorts of setups espec-
ially among the psionic classes, a good example to look at are the Darkover
books By M.Zimmer-Bradley.
  
2) The cop out of the imperium having cultural postulates of Tech 8 earth......
Which bit exactly? Middle class America? East end of London slums? Arab Shieks?
try acting out the postulates of one of those in the other situation and see 
where THAT gets you! Ok so it's a conveinience for us (mainly) European/Us
 priveleged (eg.able to afford games) types to be able to play it But the
year is 5400+ things change! 5000 years ago most peoples ancestors were into
'cultural postulates' a wee bit different from now! Even 20 years ago......
Not all traveller characters are going to have the same basic viewpoint on
life just like even near neighbours on earth.

3) How interfertile are most human races? the kind of havoc 240,000 years of
different selective pressures will have played with fertility between Hom. sap
sub species..... Ok so tech 15 fiddling could put it right but it'll cost to
have kids.

4) The starship crew lifestyle is worth thinking about, hardly ever on your 
homeworld... in lose quarters with the same crew for often years, the kind of
Starship-starport subculture that could spring up. One of my party see's the 
universe as a procession of bars where the drinks and licensing laws are all 
that change.  The kind of bond a small ship crew can form esp. a warship like
a t-type, gazelle or fiery and the fact that the trav' universe is apparantly
an equal opportunities employer meaning sex ratios are roughly equal.  I have
a party that is 60% female human 30%male human and 10%vargr female and that
is an entertaining mixture.

5) Re: the players wanting to 'dirty' things with their PC's? how many of you
get that? Mine don't incidently (of my player group 3 are female 5 male and
males play women females also play men).  Not a terribly relevent point but  
I thought I'd ask while I was on the subject. I find MT and Sf gaming seems
less prone to a that sort of thing than fantasy which I have seen get a bit
'quaff and wench'  maybe it is the civilised nature of imperial soceity that
makes that kind of 'lecher gaming' impractial? Anyone willing to comment?

once again long winded but more relevent!
	JAFO

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3243
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 91 12:10 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSU646@vaxa.bangor.ac.uk>
Subject: History and TAS

Is there any way for those of us who don't get Challenge to get hold of the
 Traveller News Service? It is the only part of the mag' I am interested in and
that alone doesn't justify the outlay.  Megatrav' Journals Newsbriefs are good
but WAY too infrequent to act as a regular news fix.  I recall someone asking if
TAS on e-mail was possible...? why not indeed?
 FASA have a good thing in their screamsheets in the back of their published
Shadowrun  scenarios and campaigns, if you write in with news worthy bits of
 your own games they may include it in the official universe news, now I don't
 know exactly what HIWG actually -DO- but that can't be a bad idea for the
 trav', MT or "virus Trav"  universe to adopt can it?  What do you people think?
 I hope the 80 year gap between revisions is going to be covered to allow those
of us still running Rebellion not to blunder about in the dark TOO much.
  

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3244
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1991 15:29 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: GEnie:  MegaTrav design flaws

Hi folks,

Ok, here we go:
Here are a few areas where the MegaTrav design system is off by
orders of magnatude.  These are things I would like to see
corrected in a revision of Traveller.

Fission/Fusion/Antimatter fuel requirements.
- --------------------------------------------
A few days ago I put out a note about how bad the fuel
requirements for a fission reactor are.  Well, I looked up the
actual figures and here we are:

The N.S. Savannah, (world's first [only?] nuclear merchantmant)
carried 49 kg of uranium fuel.  According to the article, this
would power the reactor at 80%-20knots for 300,000Nm.  15,000 hrs
at 20.1MW output.  According to MegaTrav rules that same reactor
would burn 7537.5 metric TONS!  Now I don't mind a factor of 2
error here and there between freinds but that is FIFTEEN MILLION
percent error!
(source: Aug 1962 National Geographic "Aboard the N.S. Savannah")

Ok, now how do we revise this without throwing every traveller
fusion reactor out the door in the revision?

Answer:  Simple.  Fusion reactors don't burn Hydrogen, they burn
Tritium/Deuterium (hydrogen isotopes).  It is present in the
hydrogen fuel but in extremely small quantities.  (No I don't
have the figures with me... {Metlay?})  This could account for
the discrepancies in fuel consumption/energy output.

Jump drives make use of hydrogen for cooling as well as a power
source.  Thus they need the extra hydrogen in the mix.

Advantage of this idea:  Now, one could fill a starship's fuel
tanks with deuterium/tritium and have 1000+ times the endurance
for the power plant.  (refined deuterium & tritium would of
course COST a lot more, but military ships could afford it.)

Of course they would still need to carry jump fuel, and dumping
deuterium and tritium into the jump drive when hydrogen will do
would be expensive!  But that would explain why hydrogen was
used.

(Please note:  With the above change in fuel consumption: ie
vastly reduced fission fuel consumption, fission powered
starships are indeed feasable within the MegaTrav design system. 
I have put a few onto the TML and they should be available from
the TML vehicle archives.  I created a minor-{major?} argument
when I pointed out that a Nuclear Damper should be able to
increase the output of a fission reactor dramatically by speeding
up the fission reaction.  Anyone interested in this see the
"Highguard" Class experimental cruiser in the TML archives)

Of course this makes the anti-matter fuel consumption stuff look
absolutely rediculous... But I haven't seen anyone use it.  I
tried a brief experiment and saw that a TL 16 fusion plant was
much more desirable.  In any case, changing the Anti-Matter
consumption isn't going to ruin anybody's day.  I haven't seen a
single design that used it.

Batteries:
- ---------
The batteries are much too expensive.  I have turned out a few
Diesel/Electric submarines (using a similar system to the
recently published Wet Navy) and the subs ended up costing about
as much as a heavy Battlecruiser of the same Tech level.  (a U.S.
Fleet type sub cost as much as the Graf Spee!) This was due
solely to the cost of the batteries.

Admittedly, I'm not sure of the power it stores, but the battery
in my car is about 5 liters in volume and cost me $25.  Well a 5
liter battery in MegaTrav costs about 1500 Cr.  Something is
Wrong here!

Ok, now the battery table is converted from Book 8 Robots.  So,
I'd guess that the writers figured these were high storage/light
weight/small size/high quality batteries to fit inside a very
sophisticated electronic device.

Perhaps, there should be a chart of batteries meant for large
storage as opposed to high quality?  After all, filling a
diesel/electric sub with camera batteries is going to be Quite
expensive...

Maximum Speed
- -------------
Has anybody looked at the max speed table?  The thrust/weight
ratio and it's correspondance to maximum speed is WAY off.  I
strongly suggest that the people revising the stuff take a look
at the actual thrust to weight ratio's of aircraft.
(all speeds below are in kilometers per hour)

Thrust/Wt	Aircraft	Speed	MegaT	COACC
..2G		C-135A		965	240	240
..3G		A-6		1100	360	360
..4G		F-5		1700	480	480
..5G		F-8		1930	600	600
..6G		F-105		2235	720	720
..7G		F-106		2455	840	840
..8G		F-14		2485	960	960
..9G					1080	1080
1G		F-15		2655	1200	1200
2G					2120	2000
3G		X-15		7274	2850	3000
4G					3400	3200
5G					3840	3750
6G					4200
(Note that the SR-71's thrust to weight ratio is .3824 max speed
is unknown but around 3100 kph {Bertil?})
(The X-15 thrust/wt ratio is about 1.15 increasing to 3.3 as fuel
is burned)
(I complied a list of thrust to weight vs max speed which anyone
is welcome to, just ask)

In the light of the above, I think grav vehicles and starships
max speed should be VASTLY higher than they are.  COACC's
aircraft engines have vastly exaggerated thrusts listed, and so
that the aircraft's speed comes out about right.  But any 1G
merchant ship should be about Mach 2+, and any grav vehicle/ship
with an excess thrust of 3G would be about as fast as the X-15! 
(Mach 6+!!)

Rate of Fire
- ------------
Wet Navy/Design and stuff.  The Rate of Fire for big guns is off. 
Perhaps the Ref's handbook doesn't take the loading equipment in
a turret into account, but according to what I have found about
the Bismark, and other TL 6 heavily armed ships, the ROF of a
38cm gun should be 2 rounds per minute, not 1/4; ROF of the 28cm
is also 2 rnds/min, not 1/4, and the ROF of a 20cm gun should be
3 rnds/min not 1.
This of course is only a minor quibble...

If we can hammer these out this revision would really be great!

Falicitations,
Scott S. Kellogg

PS.	One extremely minor quibble:  Challenge 54 gives us a whole
lot of new weapons (YEA!  TL 2 Cannons at last!  Yippee!)  But it
doesn't give us the prices.  A missile launcher weighs 110% of
weight of missile... but no cost or volume.  A torpedo tube takes
up 110% of the volume of the torpedo, but no weight or cost...

Anybody out on GEnie have those figures?

PPS.	The TDR folks had an idea which makes sence:  Have the
chassis damage points of a vehicle be related to the weight of
the chassis.  Thus a heavily armored chassis would be able to
take more low penetration damage than a light one of the same
size.  (The example was one of school bus vs. main battle tank)
But I don't know much about it.  {Rob can you give us a run down
on it?}

Thanks,
Mr. Scott

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

